{"id":145,"date":"2014-03-09T17:04:11","date_gmt":"2014-03-09T17:04:11","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/old.aigine.kg\/panel-discussion-on-sacred-site-issues-2005\/"},"modified":"2019-12-26T13:35:00","modified_gmt":"2019-12-26T13:35:00","slug":"panel-discussion-on-sacred-site-issues-2005","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/aigine.kg\/?p=145&lang=en","title":{"rendered":"Panel discussion on sacred site issues, 2005"},"content":{"rendered":"<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: center;\"><strong>Panel: Sacred Site Issues<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">Date: May 17, 2005<br \/>Place: Manas Ordo Complex, Talas oblast<br \/>Language: Kyrgyz<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">Apart from working with students, Aigine RC carries out regular work with people for whom mazar pilgrimage is an inseparable part of life. Some of them were concentrated in the organization \u201cArcha Tamyr\u201d; many are working individually and are not interested in any kind of mutual cooperation.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">The idea of the roundtable came from the pilgrims, traditional practitioners and it stems from thier concerns:<\/p>\n<ul style=\"list-style-type: none; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">\n<li style=\"list-style-type: square; list-style-position: inside; background-image: none; padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin-bottom: 5px;\">Vulnerability of many sacred sites \u2013 when cattle pollute the springs and caves, damages trees and plants, and nobody does anything to prevent that;<\/li>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: square; list-style-position: inside; background-image: none; padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin-bottom: 5px;\">Absence of any regulations that set out rules of behavior at mazars \u2013 in this respect, many natural sacred sites are turning into entertainment sites and the sanctity leaves these sites;<\/li>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: square; list-style-position: inside; background-image: none; padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin-bottom: 5px;\">The biggest and well-developed mazar of the oblast \u201cManas Ordo\u201d has become a commercial center in a way where people are admitted by buying tickets,<\/li>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: square; list-style-position: inside; background-image: none; padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin-bottom: 5px;\">Some followers of Islam are very bellicose towards mazars and agitate against the sacred sites&nbsp;worshiping,<\/li>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: square; list-style-position: inside; background-image: none; padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin-bottom: 5px;\">In a vast majority of cases, only the keepers and professionals are concerned with the future of sacred sites \u2013 the state and local authorities show no interest in them whatsoever.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\"><strong>Goals:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul style=\"list-style-type: none; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">\n<li style=\"list-style-type: square; list-style-position: inside; background-image: none; padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin-bottom: 5px;\">To figure out problems, difficulties and contradictions of mazars in Talas oblast<\/li>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: square; list-style-position: inside; background-image: none; padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin-bottom: 5px;\">To find solutions to mazars\u2019 problems as defined by the roundtable participants<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">Discussion of all questions passed under a very emotional and arduous atmosphere. First of all, this had likely to do with the contingent of participants, who meet and listen to one another quite rarely.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\"><strong>Roundtable participants<\/strong><br \/>The invitees included people related to mazars in this or other way: healers, doctors, government leaders, representatives of NGOs, Muftiat, Committee on Religion and Museum, researchers and our students.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\"><strong>Administrators.&nbsp;<\/strong>Administrative workers of different levels took part in the Roundtable: assistant governor, ombudsman, heads of various committees under the oblast kenesh, director of the museum under \u201cManas Ordo\u201d, and others. Most of these people are sure that they are aware of all the problems and know solutions to them. To their minds money, which is always lacking, is the only problem. Many administrators are truly cut off the reality of mazars and cannot think it might be an object of state concern. Their attitude towards the professionals leaves much to be desired.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\"><strong>NGO representatives<\/strong>. In addition to the organization \u201cArcha Tamyr\u201d, there were representatives of non-governmental organizations who came with quite personal agenda: whether they could get any grant. The head of the organization \u201cManas 1000\u201d even expressed surprise and displeasure with the fact Talas mazars are dealt with by non-Talas NGO \u201cAigine\u201d.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\"><strong>Guardians.&nbsp;<\/strong>These were the most reticent and self-possessed group of participants. They spoke out only when it got specifically to their mazar: interpretation of the name, description of specificity and problems of protection.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\"><strong>Traditional practitioners.<\/strong>&nbsp;This was the most emotional group. Their speeches were impetuous, inconsistent but full of passionate meaning. They mainly shared their experiences of healing at mazars. The professionals are concerned that the followers of \u201cpure\u201d Islam are trying to cast doubt on their Islam. They are unanimous in claiming that they are Muslims and that their relation to mazars cannot put it in doubt. It is this group of people that through their experience and life philosophy creates (builds) the people\u2019s Kyrgyz type of Islam whose organic element is worshipping and practicing at mazars.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">Our students are currently observing the practices and patients of the professionals.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">In general, the discussion of adherence to Kyrgyzchylyk [the system of traditional Kyrgyz beliefs, which includes worshipping mazars] and Islam showed that there is no dilemma Kyrgyzchylyk vs Islam for most of the visitors and those practicing at mazars. They have a holistic religious system and often ready, without any special education or theory, to explain it.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">A special type of participants was represented by several people, official representatives of Islam (for example, moldo from Kokoi village), who visited mazars until recently and combined Islam and mazars without conflict.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">The final roundtable session was dedicated to finding solutions to the problems discussed at the earlier roundtable. All participants were asked to divide in five groups to brainstorm over five problem areas. An interesting detail: almost all participants from the groups of administrators did not take part in this kind of work for different reasons. In contrast, mazar visitors who all day rather listened than spoke were very active in this work.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\"><strong>The working group<\/strong><br \/>After presenting quite interesting projects, the roundtable participants elected a working group composed of five people, which will continue working on the proposed ideas. This group included the representatives of: \u0430) the oblast administration, b) Muftiat (the official structure of Islam), c) professionals, d) \u201cManas Ordo\u201d governmental complex, and e) the official representative of Islam visiting mazars.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">The objective of this group is to draft a declaration on the mazars of Talas oblast. The Declaration of the solution the mazar problems will be developed by the working group based on discussions of the Round Table.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\">The meeting of the working group members should be held in August 2005 in order to discuss the final version of the Declaration and approve the solution to mazar problems.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-top: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: justify;\"><em>Prepared by Dr. Gulnara Aitpaeva<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Panel: Sacred Site Issues Date: May 17, 2005Place: Manas Ordo Complex, Talas oblastLanguage: Kyrgyz Apart from working with students, Aigine RC carries out regular work with people for whom mazar pilgrimage is an inseparable part of life. Some of them were concentrated in the organization \u201cArcha Tamyr\u201d; many are working individually and are not interested &hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[199],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/aigine.kg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/145"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/aigine.kg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/aigine.kg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/aigine.kg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/aigine.kg\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=145"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/aigine.kg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/145\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4363,"href":"http:\/\/aigine.kg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/145\/revisions\/4363"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/aigine.kg\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=145"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/aigine.kg\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=145"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/aigine.kg\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=145"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}